Comments on: The strange irony of Janteloven http://www.littlegreenriver.com/2006/10/13/the-strange-irony-of-janteloven/ Karen Rustad's rants, portfolios, and pretty things Mon, 24 May 2010 19:14:29 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0 By: Joy http://www.littlegreenriver.com/2006/10/13/the-strange-irony-of-janteloven/comment-page-1/#comment-37661 Joy Fri, 05 Dec 2008 01:58:14 +0000 http://www.nosve.com/blog/?p=85#comment-37661 I found this on another site: It derives from the the novel "En flygtning krysser sitt spor" ('A refugee crosses his tracks') by the Norwegian/Danish author Aksel Sandemose. The book takes place in an imaginary Danish small town called Jante, based on Sandemose's hometown Nykøbing Mors. The book is about the ugly sides of Scandinavian smalltown mentality, and the term "Janteloven" meaning "Jante Laws" has come to mean the unspoken rules and jealousy of such communities in general. I found this on another site:
It derives from the the novel “En flygtning krysser sitt spor” (‘A refugee crosses his tracks’) by the Norwegian/Danish author Aksel Sandemose. The book takes place in an imaginary Danish small town called
Jante, based on Sandemose’s hometown Nykøbing Mors. The book is about the ugly sides of Scandinavian smalltown mentality, and the term “Janteloven” meaning “Jante Laws” has come to mean the unspoken rules and jealousy of such communities in general.

]]> By: Michael Holm http://www.littlegreenriver.com/2006/10/13/the-strange-irony-of-janteloven/comment-page-1/#comment-33775 Michael Holm Wed, 27 Aug 2008 07:42:46 +0000 http://www.nosve.com/blog/?p=85#comment-33775 Was a fictional story in South east Denamrk in the Toen of Nykøbing. As i see it there is allot more to it than that, look a sociaty today, envy, greed, carelessness and every man for him self and how much money he or she can make for one self. Think more Jantes Law is an ironical mindplay that even today is perhaps more relevant than ever even globally and perhaps even especially the rich Countries like US and EU. Michael Was a fictional story in South east Denamrk in the Toen of Nykøbing.

As i see it there is allot more to it than that, look a sociaty today, envy, greed, carelessness and every man for him self and how much money he or she can make for one self.

Think more Jantes Law is an ironical mindplay that even today is perhaps more relevant than ever even globally and perhaps even especially the rich Countries like US and EU.

Michael

]]> By: Charles Cooper http://www.littlegreenriver.com/2006/10/13/the-strange-irony-of-janteloven/comment-page-1/#comment-12445 Charles Cooper Tue, 16 Oct 2007 20:11:09 +0000 http://www.nosve.com/blog/?p=85#comment-12445 Very interesting, as my wife is Danish, we've lived in Denmark since 2001, and we are raising our three bilingual children in the Danish education system. We live in Jutland (northern Denmark) amidst all the rural villages and farmland. Janteloven up here is different -- probably more pronounced -- than the type you might run across in KBH. I'm told that janteloven comes from some Norwegian poem but I've never been able to learn the name or find an English translation. My own experience with this would lead me to, at first impulse, equate janteloven with "jealousy" or "envy." It can be like that but it's often different or more. One apparently common strain of this: smug satisfaction when a "high-flyer" or successful or high-profile individual falls. The more public the fall, the more satisfaction...sort of a "serves them right" indignaton. I've seen this again and again, especially in the media -- just like in the US, where our media revels orgiastically when the rich, famous and/or powerful fail. As I became acculturated to Danish society, I learned that Danes can often be perceived as very cold upon first meetings. I've learned to look right past this when meeting people, as I know this somewhat frosty, diffident, and distant persona is more often than not cultural rather than personal. For me, it's certainly no indication of a person's real personality or warmth or grace or social skills. Oddly, my wife and I have heard and watched over the years dozens and dozens of perfect strangers absolutely light up when they learn I'm American or my wife is married to an American. Almost to a man, each of these folks had been to American and experienced our brand of hospitality. "Everyone is so NICE and FRIENDLY and WARM and OUTGOING over there!" is a comment we hear again and again. Just the mention of America to these people triggers some kind of Pavlovian reaction of admiration -- maybe because it's so strikingly different from Denmark? But don't get me started on Danish schools. I have three kids in Danish primary school. As much as I don't care for the insane, test-crazy US public school system, the Danes seem to have gone to the other extreme with peace, love and karma in the schools. Our kids always do extra homework. Great blog...now can somebody find that Norwegian poem that allegedly is the source of janteloven? Tak! Very interesting, as my wife is Danish, we’ve lived in Denmark since 2001, and we are raising our three bilingual children in the Danish education system.

We live in Jutland (northern Denmark) amidst all the rural villages and farmland. Janteloven up here is different — probably more pronounced — than the type you might run across in KBH.

I’m told that janteloven comes from some Norwegian poem but I’ve never been able to learn the name or find an English translation.

My own experience with this would lead me to, at first impulse, equate janteloven with “jealousy” or “envy.” It can be like that but it’s often different or more.

One apparently common strain of this: smug satisfaction when a “high-flyer” or successful or high-profile individual falls. The more public the fall, the more satisfaction…sort of a “serves them right” indignaton.

I’ve seen this again and again, especially in the media — just like in the US, where our media revels orgiastically when the rich, famous and/or powerful fail.

As I became acculturated to Danish society, I learned that Danes can often be perceived as very cold upon first meetings.

I’ve learned to look right past this when meeting people, as I know this somewhat frosty, diffident, and distant persona is more often than not cultural rather than personal. For me, it’s certainly no indication of a person’s real personality or warmth or grace or social skills.

Oddly, my wife and I have heard and watched over the years dozens and dozens of perfect strangers absolutely light up when they learn I’m American or my wife is married to an American.

Almost to a man, each of these folks had been to American and experienced our brand of hospitality. “Everyone is so NICE and FRIENDLY and WARM and OUTGOING over there!” is a comment we hear again and again.

Just the mention of America to these people triggers some kind of Pavlovian reaction of admiration — maybe because it’s so strikingly different from Denmark?

But don’t get me started on Danish schools. I have three kids in Danish primary school. As much as I don’t care for the insane, test-crazy US public school system, the Danes seem to have gone to the other extreme with peace, love and karma in the schools.

Our kids always do extra homework.

Great blog…now can somebody find that Norwegian poem that allegedly is the source of janteloven?

Tak!

]]> By: Karina http://www.littlegreenriver.com/2006/10/13/the-strange-irony-of-janteloven/comment-page-1/#comment-11640 Karina Fri, 05 Oct 2007 00:06:53 +0000 http://www.nosve.com/blog/?p=85#comment-11640 I don't remember how old Janteloven is but it is a very old and deeply rooted mentality that is always right under the surface in Denmark. This mentality is found in other countries in northern Europe such as Germany, Sweden, Norway and Iceland. I was born and grew up in Denmark and know for a fact that at least the first 6 rules of conduct are rules that Danes do adhere to, some areas of the country more so than others. Although some may explain this mentality as being modest there's one thing that is missing and that is that embracing these rules or some of the rules also indirectly teaches people to not be happy for other people. A very simple example is that when someone is successful their friends and family will automatically say "well don't think you're more than us or better than us" rather than saying "congratulations. I'm happy for you". My own family for the most part is no exception. Whether Danes will admit it or not there is a tendency over there to be slightly ill-wishing on others. That, I think, is disgusting and it is one of the reasons I chose to leave Denmark. Some areas of the U.S. has a similar thing going... for example Central PA (Lancaster) with it's heavy Dutch and German influence. I had the opportunity to live 2 years in Naples, Italy some years ago. In Naples you find a completely different mentality. They know how to enjoy life today and be happy for what you have and for other people and their successes. If I ever were to move back to Europe I hope to move back to Bella Napoli and the beauty of the laid back and warm Italian way of life. - Karina I don’t remember how old Janteloven is but it is a very old and deeply rooted mentality that is always right under the surface in Denmark. This mentality is found in other countries in northern Europe such as Germany, Sweden, Norway and Iceland. I was born and grew up in Denmark and know for a fact that at least the first 6 rules of conduct are rules that Danes do adhere to, some areas of the country more so than others. Although some may explain this mentality as being modest there’s one thing that is missing and that is that embracing these rules or some of the rules also indirectly teaches people to not be happy for other people. A very simple example is that when someone is successful their friends and family will automatically say “well don’t think you’re more than us or better than us” rather than saying “congratulations. I’m happy for you”. My own family for the most part is no exception.
Whether Danes will admit it or not there is a tendency over there to be slightly ill-wishing on others. That, I think, is disgusting and it is one of the reasons I chose to leave Denmark. Some areas of the U.S. has a similar thing going… for example Central PA (Lancaster) with it’s heavy Dutch and German influence.

I had the opportunity to live 2 years in Naples, Italy some years ago. In Naples you find a completely different mentality. They know how to enjoy life today and be happy for what you have and for other people and their successes. If I ever were to move back to Europe I hope to move back to Bella Napoli and the beauty of the laid back and warm Italian way of life.
- Karina

]]> By: Pedersen http://www.littlegreenriver.com/2006/10/13/the-strange-irony-of-janteloven/comment-page-1/#comment-3670 Pedersen Tue, 24 Apr 2007 01:15:44 +0000 http://www.nosve.com/blog/?p=85#comment-3670 This is such a fascinating concept. I stumbled across this on another website. This explains so much about my family and my upbringing that I am just speechless! I never attributed this to being Danish...and given that I am traveling there for the first time next month, it brings a lot into perspective, especially since I will be in some small backroad villages! Your insights are so beautifully stated. This is such a fascinating concept. I stumbled across this on another website. This explains so much about my family and my upbringing that I am just speechless! I never attributed this to being Danish…and given that I am traveling there for the first time next month, it brings a lot into perspective, especially since I will be in some small backroad villages! Your insights are so beautifully stated.

]]> By: yogalaura http://www.littlegreenriver.com/2006/10/13/the-strange-irony-of-janteloven/comment-page-1/#comment-3607 yogalaura Sun, 22 Apr 2007 01:32:43 +0000 http://www.nosve.com/blog/?p=85#comment-3607 Hi Karen, I found your great blog this evening when googling the term "Janteloven" for some research I'm doing for a book. Your explanation of it was really excellent and helped me really understand it a whole lot better since you provide fascinating real-life examples. I am Danish-American (my maiden name is Petersen) and writing a biography of the Copenhagen-born silent film comic Karl Dane (born Karl Gottlieb). Karl was an extremely popular actor in the 1920s but had a very heavy accent so was out of work by the time Talkies came in. He became very down and out and sadly committed suicide in 1934. Another Dane recently introduced me to this concept of Janteloven as a possible reason why Karl felt he could not return home again, but your info here may also explain its role in his failure to make a connection to others in Hollywood and ultimately reach out for help in the end. As a result, Karl's body went unclaimed after his death and he almost ended up in a pauper's grave, before MGM stepped in and paid for these expenses. Thanks for the site and for sharing your experiences about Denmark. I really have a long way to go before I understand their culture and attitudes, but your info definitely helps! If you'd like to visit my Karl Dane site outlining my research, it is at www.karl-dane.com. Kind Regards, Laura Hi Karen,
I found your great blog this evening when googling the term “Janteloven” for some research I’m doing for a book. Your explanation of it was really excellent and helped me really understand it a whole lot better since you provide fascinating real-life examples. I am Danish-American (my maiden name is Petersen) and writing a biography of the Copenhagen-born silent film comic Karl Dane (born Karl Gottlieb). Karl was an extremely popular actor in the 1920s but had a very heavy accent so was out of work by the time Talkies came in. He became very down and out and sadly committed suicide in 1934. Another Dane recently introduced me to this concept of Janteloven as a possible reason why Karl felt he could not return home again, but your info here may also explain its role in his failure to make a connection to others in Hollywood and ultimately reach out for help in the end. As a result, Karl’s body went unclaimed after his death and he almost ended up in a pauper’s grave, before MGM stepped in and paid for these expenses.

Thanks for the site and for sharing your experiences about Denmark. I really have a long way to go before I understand their culture and attitudes, but your info definitely helps! If you’d like to visit my Karl Dane site outlining my research, it is at http://www.karl-dane.com.
Kind Regards,
Laura

]]> By: Erik http://www.littlegreenriver.com/2006/10/13/the-strange-irony-of-janteloven/comment-page-1/#comment-422 Erik Mon, 16 Oct 2006 22:10:32 +0000 http://www.nosve.com/blog/?p=85#comment-422 Just stumbled over your blog via a "Danish" search through the blogosphere. I'm american with a Danish Mother. Spent a semester in school in Denmark as a grade schooler and was recently married there. You bring up some great thoughts and have introduced me to Janteloven. Look forward to some good exchanges. Best, Erik Just stumbled over your blog via a “Danish” search through the blogosphere.

I’m american with a Danish Mother. Spent a semester in school in Denmark as a grade schooler and was recently married there.

You bring up some great thoughts and have introduced me to Janteloven.

Look forward to some good exchanges.

Best,

Erik

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